There really isn't any need to load the body of the Active files either since we are only looking at thumbnails until we choose a file to open. Wouldn't it be better for MS CE to only load the file headers to preserve bandwidth?

If the file open dialog is downloading every file in the list its kind of overkill to me.

I understand there might be a case to pre-load a file but in the dialog box, but essentially, what are we looking it?

Enhancement 1129813 has been filed.

Massimo Callegher 5 months ago

Good Ideas

RobertArnold 5 months ago

Hi,

I would also like to add the comment that you should be able to do minor reference file manipulation while the reference files are not loaded. While they are not loaded, you should be able to delete (detach) them, and do a (vba) SetAttachNameDeferred command. I have to deal with a lot of dwg files. I convert them all to dgn files and change the referenced attachments from .dwg to .dgn. The .dwg takes a long time to load, but the dgn does not. If I were able to open without loading the reference files, and then change the extension of the attachments, that would save a lot of time.

--Thanks,
--Robert Arnold

Ian Lapper 5 months ago in reply toRobertArnold

I agree. As i mentioned DWG are getting bigger and bigger and the time it takes to open a dgn file with a dwg file linked is painful. This also relates to the DGN/DWG audit idea i raised.

Ian

Tim Hickman 5 months ago in reply to Ian Lapper

@Robert and Ian - what you guys are starting is a separate area of discussion (reference management).

RobertArnold 5 months ago in reply to Tim Hickman

Hi Tim,

The original title is "File Open options > Do not load reference files". My entire point is that I already have an option to disregard all reference files (via the "-o" command line switch), but it would be nice to have something more easily accessed, and it simply "does not load" the reference file--not totally make it non-existent. My situation is one where I simply want to "SetAttachNameDeferred" change the file name from .dwg to .dgn. Currently that can not be done. If the "file open" option existed and simply did not load the elements from the referenced file (but still allowed other actions), it would make things easier and faster.

My original comment was directly on focus with the topic of this "idea." I would like the option, and I would like it to result in a specified functionality.

--Thanks,
--Robert

Tim Hickman 5 months ago in reply to RobertArnold

not sure you can have it that way. In order for the the program to be able to process any data it needs to load that data, but I guess that is up to DEV to determine.

HI Tim,

I see the reference file attachment as having two different parts:
1) The Reference File Header? --> The active design file has to have an "element" that specifies that a reference file attachment exists, where it is placed, scale factors, and any other options. This information is non-graphical, but is used to populate the reference file dialog box, and it is stored in the active design file.
2) The Elements in the referenced file --> These are the actual elements in the referenced file. They are not written to the active design file--they are written to the reference file, and just shown in the active file.

The "-o" switch ignores what I am calling the "reference file header"--i.e. there is no indication that a reference file attachment ever existed.
The option that I would be looking for would keep the "reference file header" and populate the reference dialog box. What it would ignore is actually loading the elements from the referenced file. That way, simple tasks on the reference file would be available, but you would not have to load and render any of the elements from that file. (I.E., you could see the file attached, and it would behave like an attachment with zero elements and zero levels, etc.)

--Thanks,
--Robert

Tim Hickman 5 months ago in reply to RobertArnold

I agree with what you are saying - but are the graphics the cause of opening delay ? or are there other things causing it as well ?

Hi Tim,

I see Microstation "reading model" from FileName.dwg for a long time before anything is displayed on the screen. I think that sometimes I see something about loading transseed.dgn (or something like that--I'm just going from memory), and when attaching something I see messages about loading the AEC scheme, and loading / substituting SHX files, etc. This all happens before anything is displayed.

What I'm hoping that the file-open option will do is load the information about the reference file that is stored in the active file (IE name, description, location, scale, etc.) without loading anything from the reference file or its required resources. This would greatly help the loading time before Microstation displays anything to the screen, and then it would reduce the amount of information that is actually displayed on the screen.

--Thanks,
--Robert

Tim Hickman 5 months ago in reply to RobertArnold

the only reason you want the data is so that it can be post processed to do other things and I get wanting this. But where do you draw the line ? lets say you get what you want with three things, name, logical name and description - then who's to say someone else might need scale, or geo location or access to the word doc linked to it (all non- graphical info...)

What I would like to see is a reference management tool to do these sort of things, but is a totally different request.

what the original user wants - is just to speed up opening times.

RobertArnold 5 months ago in reply to Tim Hickman

Hi Tim,

The bottom line is that the "-o" command line switch would speed up the loading of the files. Ian ccoudl make a copy of the shortcut to Microstation and add the -o switch to the command. Unfortunately, that option is useless for me, and also does not do everything that Ian requested. I don't want to load the attached file, but I do want to load the information that is stored in the active design file. That is the natural limit of the request.

The original post says, "Once [the active design file is] open the user can then load [the reference files], if they want too." This would only be possible if the "header" is loaded and the reference dialog box is populated. At that point, you should be able to right-click on the attachment and select "reload file" to load and display that particular file. Or you could "reload all" to load all files.

The bottom line is that I am sticking with the originally requested idea. The "file open" option would speed things up, and allow for loading the reference file after the master file is loaded. Also, with the header loaded, you should be able to make changes to the header information.

--Robert

Tim Hickman 5 months ago

some other things to consider are:

1. is this an all or nothing setting ? or a per file option ?

2. Should this be a configuration setting/control ?

3. Should this be a _USTN_CAPABILITY option ?

4. Will there be a way to make changes to this option after the attachment ? this may sound dumb - but it needs to be stated.

5. Maybe have something similar to DWG open options ?

RobertArnold 5 months ago in reply to Tim Hickman

HI Tim,

This should be a one-time check box as you open a drawing. As far as not-loading-reference-files, there is already a start-up option, but you have to put it on the command line, and you can not do anything with the reference file attachments (you can not see the list, move, delete, change name, or access them through vba). This should be an all-or-nothing setting for the file that you are currently opening.

--Robert

Tim Hickman 5 months ago in reply to RobertArnold

the start up option is something completely different and not at all what I was referring to. That option will not load the file at all (they are not attached).

I do agree the option should be all or nothing, but that is our opinion - there may be others who want it per file (just something that needs discussed).

Tim Hickman 5 months ago

While the additional functionality that Robert Arnold is asking for may seem valid, I don't think it should be part of this option for Development to include here.

What I am afraid of, is that the additional functionality Robert is asking for may bog down the original request.

Get the simple option out the door for the majority and then add the additional functions later.

RobertArnold 5 months ago in reply to Tim Hickman

Hi,
When evaluating this request, please consider all parameters of the original request:
1) Option(s) available through the file-open dialog box
2) Ability to specify not loading attached reference files
3) Ability to specify not loading raster files, etc.
4) Ability to load/reload attached reference file/raster file after the master file is open.

Also please highly consider allowing the user to manipulate the non-loaded reference file and/or change the attached file name of the non-loaded file. Please make sure that this additional request does not cause any significant slowdown to the original request.

Thank you Tim for making sure that we were still on topic and that the additional request and/or clarification to the request is not counter productive.

--Thanks,
--Robert

Ian Lapper 5 months ago in reply to RobertArnold

From my point of view this should be an option within the OPEN File dialog. This dialog should be an option to process (default) or not reference files. This request is all about speed of opening files. Once open the user should be able to load the references in the state that they were left in prior to the last save.

This is how Revit works and it sure does save time.

FYI In Revit you can define a series of worksets ie what data can be edited or not. This is a sort of works package for the teams, to prevent data not assigned to the workset from being edited. One such workset is called Links aka references. In the open dialog there is an option under the open button to specify how you want the file to be opened. if it is set to Specify, the user will see another dialog allowing them to change the way the file is opened and what is processed.

see image

As Robert has mentioned, in earlier builds of CE you can actually see CE processing every reference file and ALL the DGNLIB's. OK in CE14 it is better, but I am sure it is still doing the same thing behind the scenes.

Would be good if we can have something similar for processing references.

Aadarsh Tale 3 months ago

I have a problem that when I work with more number of reference files the opening time for Item Browser/Explorer increases and the ideas by Ian, Tim and Robert will be helpful if it gets implemented.